Now we all know (don’t we, gentlemen?!) that approaching a dominant woman who you don’t know with a list of kinks that you would like to have done to you is inappropriate, as is asking to be her submissive/slave, asking her to train you, asking to serve or worship her, or telling her how she should dominate you, what she should wear, what she should say and how she should behave while doing it and etc.
This post is not aimed at wankers or idiots or blockheads who will never ‘get’ that, who will never get past the drooling and grunting, it is aimed at genuine submissive men who are new to BDSM and looking for a relationship with a dominant woman. It is aimed at those men who discover a BDSM community and who suddenly and inexplicably forget every social skill they have ever learnt in their entire lives.
I don’t know what happens, but somewhere between “Wow, people just like me!!” and “Hello GoddessSupremeOne” some smart, well meaning, kind, lovely men lose their minds. New and shiny submissive men, this is for you!
“Would you care to train me?” is not an appropriate question to ask a strange woman who you don’t know. Neither is it appropriate to say to a strange woman anything along the lines of “I would like to be your submissive” or “May I worship you?”. Nor is it appropriate to present her with a list of your fetishes as if your kinks are some kind of gift to her.
Doing that is like walking up to a vanilla woman in the street and in the first few sentences saying “Would you care to be my girlfriend?” or “Hi, I like blowjobs”. It’s weird and creepy, right? Think about why it’s weird and creepy. You are a mature man, and I am 100% sure that you have never ever approached a vanilla woman that way.
Dominant women looking for a submissive are women seeking a relationship. While the relationship may be of a different kind than you are used to, and there are many many variations in the detail, it’s still a relationship, and it’s generally an intimate and personal one that a woman will have with someone with whom she has a strong connection on many levels, someone she truly likes and enjoys.
Approaching a woman who you don’t know with an offer of your submission is akin to saying to her “I don’t care who you are, you labelled yourself a Domme, so you’ll do”. In the same vein, emailing her with a list of your kinks is akin to “I want some lady to touch my junk, you’re a lady, here’s all the ways you can make my dick hard”. It doesn’t take much thought to see how wholly unappealing that is.
Think about this for a moment. This approach doesn’t make her feel like you see her as a person (because you clearly don’t), or that you want to get to know her (because you don’t seem to care about that either), that you will be a good and caring partner (because you won’t), that you will be fun to spend time with (how would she have any inkling of that?).
It makes her feel like you are looking for a female body to fit into your fantasy, that you will submit to any female-identified person (would you? if so, I would have a think about that), and that devalues both you and her.
Dominant women are bombarded with those offers day in and day out… mostly from wankers, but also from men who are somehow misguided into skipping all the steps that it takes to court a woman with his charms (being sweet, smart, funny, having sparkling conversations, discovering common interests, getting to know each others quirks, going out on dates, sharing a sense of humour, flirting madly etc etc… normal relationship stuff). They go straight for the “Here I am, ready to be submissive and do all the kinky stuff… you can have me for free!” and somehow think that’s going to work (trust me, it won’t!).
Most dominant women (I really really want to say *all* dominant women, but can’t, because it takes all sorts) are not interested in “a submissive”, they are interested in YOU… You, the man… You, the fun, interesting, unique individual who happens to be submissive. I have never met a dominant woman who says “Yeah, he’s a jerk, and boring and we have nothing in common… my god, he’s insufferable! But he’s a great submissive!” It doesn’t work that way.
My advice to you – don’t suddenly forget everything that you have learnt about women and relationships because you think you are somehow in an alien world where normal rules don’t apply. Treat communication with her like a normal social interaction with a woman who you want to get to know, who you want to impress, who you want to *like* you (YOU, not some strange ‘uber-subly’, offer-yourself-to-strangers type version of you).
All the social rules of relationship building stand in this strange new world, so deliver.
Edited to add: I’ve written a book, How to find a dominant woman, to help new submissive men out with ALL of this and more. Get it, do the things.
37 comments
It is aimed at those men who discover a BDSM community and who suddenly and inexplicably forget every social skill they have ever learnt in their entire lives.
Ah yes, that you for reminding of yet another reason that I am completely disassociating myself from the term “submissive.” Personally, I want to scream every time I see a new woman stop into a web group to ask a question, only to have a dozen men respond as if Mistress Cruella just snapped her whip.
Seriously, I've often been tempted to sign on as a women simply to teach some of these guys a lesson, but frankly, I doubt it would sink in.
Of course, the flip side of this are those women who *expect* all men to grovel at their feet, but that's a different story. It's too bad that those two types never seem to find each other and go off someplace, leaving those of us with a handful of brain cells to sort things out.
:ahem:
Sorry if I hijacked your post for my own rant.
Bravo!!! Wonderful post!
Faith
“You are a mature man, and I am 100% sure that you have never ever approached a vanilla woman that way.”
You're 100% wrong. I used to walk up to random groups of girls and ask one of them out. When they would turn me down, I turn to her friend standing next to her and ask her out. It was hilarious…
“being sweet, smart, funny, having sparkling conversations, discovering common interests, getting to know each others quirks, going out on dates, sharing a sense of humour, flirting madly etc etc… normal relationship stuff”
Oh is that all I have to be? =P
“All the rules of relationship building stand in this strange new world, so deliver. “
You assume they know how to make a normal vanilla relationship work.
“Is that *all* you have to be?”
YES.
Think of it like this: if I told you to do a half hour of intense aerobic exercise, right now, even if you are in great physical shape it would feel like putting in effort.
But when horsing around playing tag or volleyball with friends or your dog,or having excellent wild monkey sex, that 30+ minutes of cardio doesn’t seem like effort.
Guys and girls who hate cleaning anything at work or housework at home may still contentedly while away the afternoon in the driveway cleaning and detailing their motorcycle. It’s still cleaning – the difference is in how you feel about the chore.
What sounds like an annoying and idealistic laundry list of traits becomes nearly effortless when and if you finally meet the person you are excited about being around.
Don’t forget – it’s not all give with no getting back. “Be witty and charming” can sound like a tall order and like being put on the spot.
But the person who is right for you will respond to your goofy pun about your favorite video game with an even worse one of her own, and be witty and charming right back!
If you show up for playdates on time, well groomed and dressed nicely and appropriately, the right person for you will unfailingly respond to that extra effort by putting in even more extra effort herself during the session.
Next time she may break out special toys or and especially stunning outfit that she usually doesn’t bother with because there is a lot of effort or preparation or clean up involved.
The same principle applies to vanilla relationships also.
If you find yourself going to a lot of extra time and trouble over someone and it seems like they don’t ever end up reciprocating with extra effort of their own, you might want to ask them what is going on and have good communication.
But ultimately it might just be that they just aren’t challenged and excited by you and are therefore not feeling the incentive to rise to your level of effort.
Or they might be going through something in their work or personal if that is just temporarily draining the energy and attention out of them.
Anyway, after you give it a little time you may realize that the real problem just that you too simply don’t inspire each other that way.
Ego & defensive reactions usually come up when I say that, but it isn’t a bad thing! It’s normal, healthy, and fine.
If everybody were completely perfect and right for everybody else, there would be no fun and no point in having any kind of specific friendships or relationships at all.
You would literally walk out the door and invite the first person you see to come watch a movie or go jogging with you because it will all turn out the same way no matter who you picked.
Finally, I feel like anybody who thanks that a basic list of personality traits That describes a pleasant and respectful person sounds like a lot of work, as I am inferring from the tone and context of the comment, hasn’t really thought this all the way through and imagine the shoe on the other foot.
Leaving aside any fetishes and kinks to the contrary, if you went out on a date with a woman and she was:
late, boring, rude, self-absorbed, dull, not well groomed, not well dressed, pushy, crude, demanding and self-centered…
basically in all ways either the opposite of that list of basic traits, or lacking in them, would you really want a second date? And why should you?
I have helped some male submissives and some male friends get ready for dates they felt really excited about.
Basically I just took them through a male equivalent of everything I as a woman would typically do to get ready for a date.
Most of them were slightly freaking out about a half hour into getting ready when they realized that we hadn’t even picked out the clothing they were wearing yet.
Showering, exfoliating, shaving everything, cologne, deodorant, let that set and dry for awhile while you clean up your eyebrows, shave and exfoliate your face and moisturize, do something with your hair, then maybe a touch of makeup, at least just a little bit of mascara to define the eyes and some chapstick to make sure lips are not dry and chapped in case you get a goodnight kiss.
Another very light layer of cologne, then let that dry while you go to the Internet to look at her Facebook page, and scroll through some of the messages you have sent back and forth.
Why? To see what kind of activities and restaurants she enjoys based on the pictures and status updates over the last couple months.
Quick research on Google to come up with a couple of back up plans in case the date either runs a little longer than expected or you can’t get a table or tickets at the place you had planned to go.
Back to your closet to put together an outfit that comfortable and looks good – but that is also practical for the weather and activities you guys plan to be doing.
I am leaving out the extra things above and beyond this which women often do.
Such as checking Google Maps to make sure there is safe parking nearby so you don’t get slightly murdered on your way to your date…
… looking at google street view to make sure that the place you are meeting the near-stranger is public enough for safety…
getting in touch with friends to let them know you are going on a date so that they can be prepared to check on you in case I don’t hear from you in a reasonable amount of time…
Maybe lining up a friend to stand by to give you a graceful exit excuse in case you and this guy really are feeling it but you don’t want to cancel an order is feelings by just leaving.
What’s that? a woman should just be honest that she’s not having a good time with the sky?
Great idea, except just about every woman in her dating life will have one or two bad experiences with a guy who felt entitled to more than he was getting and made some kind of big awkward scene or situation.
I am not afraid of the average man at all; he can make a stupid childish scene if he wants to, and I will be annoyed and amused.
But I am aware and respectful that he may have at least a few inches in height and reach advantage over me and on average 20 or 30 pounds in weight. So, I make sure that my pepper spray and a few other self defense tools are with me and accessible.
Unfortunately it is a case of a small percentage of men repeatedly committing violence against women and ruining it for the rest of men.
Because although sometimes there are red flags in personality and behavior and conversations, you just can’t look at a guy and tell that he is going to attack or hurt or try to sexually assault you.
If you could look at a guy and instantly tell that, women would just never go anywhere near those men!
Then there is all the extra effort that various societal catch 22 situations causes to become important.
I do not personally believe that an outfit or article of clothing can be inherently slutty – because after all, a piece of clothing is not a sentient living being so it can either give consent on my behalf nor overrule my consent decisions.
But, I have to work with the cultural norms of the society I am stuck in, so I end up trying on a few outfits trying to find that balance between something I feel looks good and attractive without seeming to fall into that vague and confusing imaginary zone of asking for it or implying that I intend to do something sexual.
Similarly, we nearly never get to see women and images of women in any media with NO makeup. What we see, and are habituated to seeing, is women in subtle makeup that evens out skin tone, emphasizes contour and color of her features and bone structure, and draws attention to eyes and lips.
If I put on formal makeup, then I risk the impression that I am being “fake” somehow – well since nobody’s lips are naturally metallic flake crimson, I’m not sure who is supposed to be fooled by that. No comment.
But if I actually literally don’t put any makeup on, I look pale, washed out, maybe a little tired or ill.
I have extremely long eyelashes but my natural skin and hair color do not contrast very strongly with each other – so you can’t see the well without a little bit of mascara, just a tone or two darker than my natural eye lash color.
I have naturally full lips in a cupid bow shape, but my lip skin tone is barely a shade darker then my surrounding face. so it doesn’t really show off to good advantage unless I emphasize it by darkening it with lipstick or drawing attention with a little clear gloss.
I had bad asthma and allergies as a young child, so although the skin under my eyes is never puffy as an adult, it is a few shades darker.
If I don’t even it out with a little foundation to match the rest of my skin toner, I always look a little tired- even though that is just my natural skin tone in that area of my face.
Am i showing this person what I look like when I have gone to exactly no effort to look better? NO. Partly because I think it would be rude to put forth no effort to make a decent impression.
If you are a shallow enough person to dislike me because you don’t like the natural skin tone and contrast of my face, don’t worry, you won’t be having that moment of full disclosure because I will pick up on that shallowness and demanding temperament and there won’t be a second date or play session.
Be enthusiastic but not clingy or needy… be flirty without seeming “easy”… be a fun competitor in games and sports but make sure to let the guy win. Be polite but not a doormat…
The list could go on and on of everything we are all trained to believe women should do and be as a fairly minimum standard.
If a guy showers, brushes his hair, puts on clean clothing with no obvious stains or tears in it, brushes his teeth, and maybe shaved or grooms his beard, then he is done and ready for the average date.
Anything he does beyond that in most situations is going to be considered him going above and beyond.
And believe me we will be discussing it with our female friends in a very positive light later. We will definitely be saying things like this one seems like he might really have his s**t together.
If that is my checklist for a date, then you can bet this is either a date in a very casual setting, or one that I plan to do something very physical on that would just ruin the hair, makeup, & a nice outfit anyway, such as playing frisbee at the park or bicycling or being in the front row of a GWAR show.
Not every man typically goes to that minimal of an effort in his dealings with the women in his life. Some typically do much more, some do much less.
And not every woman always does that huge check list of things I have pointed out. I know I’m typically more prepared than the average.
But that wasn’t my point.
My point is to get everyone to think about some of the double standards involved here.
While you are looking at a small basic checklist of things a woman would like to see in a potential new male, keep in mind that many women feel culturally obligated to meet a much longer checklist of qualities.
Tom Allen: “Ah yes, that you for reminding of yet another reason that I am completely disassociating myself from the term “submissive.” Personally, I want to scream every time I see a new woman stop into a web group to ask a question, only to have a dozen men respond as if Mistress Cruella just snapped her whip.”
Yes, I know what you mean, though it is a slightly different problem. I am trying to reach those men who actually are lovely, but somehow (suddenly, inexplicably) become oblivious to social norms in this new environment.
My post was prompted by a communication with a mature, seemingly nice newbie submissive who honestly thought that offering his service to a strange woman was appropriate and would be appealing to her. When I explained why it wasn't, his response was a genuinely shocked, “Oh! I never thought of it like that…”, and he wanted to go back and apologise to women for previous silliness.
I'm hoping I can push a few over the edge into the light.
“Of course, the flip side of this are those women who *expect* all men to grovel at their feet, but that's a different story.”
Yes! And I think they *do* find each other and I suspect that they have very short-lived unsuccessful relationships until they move onto the next one when it fails, each proclaiming the other not “twue” or “weal”, not having learnt anything!
“Sorry if I hijacked your post for my own rant.”
S'ok. Ranting is good for the soul.
Ferns
Men who come at me trying to shortcut a connection with me… wtf? Men answer me this ???? If I sent you a message that reads like this “Hi I’m an experienced dominant female wanna get married?” How likely are you gonna want to meet me and plan a wedding? YOU ARE NOT! MEN YOU ARE GOING TO THINK IM CRAZY, YOU ARE NOT GONNA EVEN TRY TO ENGAGE ME, BEYOND RUN… GHOST… AND PROBABLY BLOCK ME. WHY? BECAUSE ITS BATSHIT CRAZY TO THINK A MAN UNATTACHED AND AVAILABLE IS GOING TO BE RECEPTIVE TO GETTING MARRIED TO SOME FEMALE HE HAS NEVER MET, HADNT SPENT TIME WITH, AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME HE HAS EVER INTERACTED WITH HER. CRRRRRAAAAY CRAAAAY! This is exactly how I feel everytime a man asks if he can be my slave, or tells me he is new and asks me to teach him the ropes because i look experienced and can show him the way- straight outa the gate.
Sure you can be my submissive if we can get married while your at it. Wanna meet me at the justice of the peace during lunch new submissive of mine? ????????????
Faith: “Bravo!!! Wonderful post!”
Methinks you have struck this many many times…! *laugh*
Thank you!
Ferns
Brids: “You're 100% wrong. I used to walk up to random groups of girls and ask one of them out.”
I've asked random boys out also, but asking someone out is NOT (at all) the same as asking someone to be your girlfriend. The first is a normal “Hello, I'd like to get to know you” invitation. The second is creepy.
“When they would turn me down, I turn to her friend standing next to her and ask her out. It was hilarious…”
I was going to leave off commenting on this, but can't do it.
I'm sure it was hilarious for the girls too – girls love to be treated like interchangeable objects (see my entire post above!). Given how hilarious you found it, the phrase “when she would turn me down” (as opposed to *if*) doesn't surprise me.
“You assume they know how to make a normal vanilla relationship work.”
Yes, I do. I can't provide any useful advice to those who have no social skills at all, have never had a successful relationship, and have no clue how to behave in female company. They need more than a friendly nudge in the right direction from some woman on the interwebs.
Ferns
I love what you are saying here. His whole concept of how this was hilarious is based entirely on his own view of what is funny.
Where as a woman I can tell you that having a random mail come up and start making demanding requests of you ranges anywhere from annoying, confusing, irritating, to downright threatening and insulting. It is almost never funny unless the guy is so socially awkward that it strikes that sympathy funny bone.
If women were laughing at what this guy was doing, the odds are really good that it was the polite social laughter meant to defuse an incredibly awkward and worrisome situation.
Of course, this shotgun approach technique is taught by certain schools of pickup artists groups, where they hope to desensitize amen to the concept of rejection by simply having him ask every woman he meets if she would go out with him or be his girlfriend.
it can help, because confidence is usually somewhat more attractive than nervousness or arrogant overconfident. And simply not seeming to care very strongly what the outcome of your question will be can definitely project confidence.
but, treating women as interchangeable objects is literally a case of objectification, and it is very insulting and aggressive behavior.
Which of course plays right into the concept of “negging” used by so many pick up artists groups, which is the idea that if you insult a woman out of nowhere, our culture has conditioned her to try to “tend and befriend” the aggressive male, so she will attempt to win back your approval even if she didn’t care about having your approval 10 seconds ago.
And honestly, on a primal level, she truly doesn’t care about having your approval just because you insulted her.
But if you as a male who may be larger, more aggressive, and have more upper body strength, come up to her and invade her personal space and interrupt her social time uninvited and start making a bunch of strange and inappropriate demands, she may literally try to please you and calm you down because on some level she feels there is a potential physical threats to her safety developing here.
so to all guys who do things like that because they think it is funny, I would like him to be aware that what they are actually doing is causing women to feel extremely insulted and threatened.
They are misusing all the advantages that their culture and society has given them to walk up into someone else’s personal space and act crazy, weird, threatening, and rude.
And they expect to get away with it without getting Maced or outright punched, because our society has conditioned everyone to expect women not to be violent or dangerous.
Including women,BTW, who are conditioned to expect themselves to find non violent and pleasant solutions to situations that may actually require unpleasantness, rudeness, and even physical violence to resolve.
People will voluntarily unconsciosly tell you so much about themselves – including things which maybe would be better left hidden, because they don’t understand that what they are revealing about themselves is actually quite telling and embarrassing.
His little story about bothering and embarrassing women in public really was not relevant to the point he was making about people wanting their submissives to meet a minimum standard of decent qualities for a basic vanilla relationship.
So why would he feel compelled to reveal this quasi non sequitur about himself unless it is some form of chest beating dominance display?
I suspect it was intended to be a brag about how little he cares about the opinions and desires of women – how since they are all interchangeable objects to him, clearly it doesn’t matter what qualities they would like to see in him
Because if he does not possess these qualities he will simply move on to the next woman and the next until he finds one with low enough self esteem to take him “as-is.”
So what this man is telling us about himself, though he does not realize it, is that rather then better himself as a person so that he can specifically have a shot at developing a relationship with a specific woman or type of women that he has selected as his ideal partner, he would rather just pathetically go begging in the streets until someone is bored enough, lonely enough, broken enough, or insane enough to say yes to him.
What does it say about you as a person if you will accept any random partner you can get? For an hour or for a lifetime, the question is relevant.
I read that tale and it makes me get the impression of him as rude, self centered, unaware and uncaring of how his actions affect others, bluffing to cover low self esteem, sexist, and not picky about his partners.
No wonder a normal list of healthy relationship qualities seems like a high standard to him.
“I'm sure it was hilarious for the girls too – girls love to be treated like interchangeable objects (see my entire post above!). Given how hilarious you found it, the phrase “when she would turn me down” (as opposed to *if*) doesn't surprise me.”
I don't think they would have been overly offended by it. I was asking them out expecting them to say no. I just find it really funny to see the other girls reaction when I ask her friend out right after being turned down by her.
“have never had a successful relationship”
I can't help but comment on this. If they had had a successful relationship, why would they be looking for advice on finding another one?
“and have no clue how to behave in female company.”
Isn't that going a little far? I know how to behave in the company of a female but that doesn't mean I know how to make a relationship work.
Great post and good advice. This is the flip side of the one you did back on Feb 26 ” You iz doin' it wrong!”
The one thing that seems to be in short supply in any kind of relationship, be it D/s or vanilla, is simple common sense. Sometimes, when walking through the minefield of human relationships, it is hard to remember to just be yourself and let nature take it's course.
Brids: “If they had had a successful relationship, why would they be looking for advice on finding another one?”
Sometimes I wonder if you read my posts at all! I'm very specific about who I aimed this post at, and why.
“Isn't that going a little far? I know how to behave in the company of a female but that doesn't mean I know how to make a relationship work.”
My point is that I'm not aiming this tiny snippet of advice at solving anyone's problems with the basics of relationship building. They have to work that out for themselves.
What I *am* doing is pointing out those well meaning, otherwise smart men that in discovering BDSM, they aren't stepping through a porthole into a parallel universe where relationship building skills are suddenly not required.
Ferns
slapshot: “The one thing that seems to be in short supply in any kind of relationship, be it D/s or vanilla, is simple common sense.”
I think that's true in many cases, but what really frustrates me is when seemingly nice smart men who have scads of common sense out in the 'real world' suddenly have some sort of brain glitch when they find a BDSM community.
I *want* the BDSM community to be full of these smart, lovely, interesting submissive men (for purely altruistic reasons, of course…), and I think many of them stumble in with this weird amnesiac haze over their brains, get shot down a number of times for inappropriate behaviour, and then run away bewildered and upset and with absolutely no idea what just happened.
“Sometimes, when walking through the minefield of human relationships, it is hard to remember to just be yourself and let nature take it's course.”
Yes, this. And that difficulty appears to be multiplied by the nth magnitude once you put a BDSM filter in front of it.
Ferns
Ferns, i love it when your blogs cause a stir and make your readers think.
Newbies (i still consider myself one) are bombarded with images and a range of options be it from Femdom porn, Fetlife profiles or the personals section of the online or newspaper.
my ingoing dominant image (pun intended) was that of a pro Domme with a dungeon and a pay as you go policy for services rendered.
my next encounters were with women who i exchanged email,chats and phone sex with. My current long term relationship and i, a mostly vanilla one, had sex chats before we met each other in person.
The world of internet dating/ relationships has changed the nature of sex for many. For many in a good way. i am a much better lover for the education the internet affords.
You blog offers a window into true Femdom relationships where the bond is great and it serves in many ways as an ideal.
But, i still remember fondly my first BSDM encounter, a one night stand with a woman who i found on the internet. i showed up, as requested, with a riding crop in my mouth and had a great evening. It was electric.
My LTR has evolved into a true loving one but with some of that electricity you maintain in yours gone. In fact this blog has inspired me and the next thing i will write is a dirty e-mail to my woman.
robert
“Sometimes I wonder if you read my posts at all! I'm very specific about who I aimed this post at, and why.”
I read them! I do have a tendency to misread and misunderstand things but I do read them.
I don't think you understood what I was saying though. (I could have been more clear) I meant that if someone has already had a successful relationship, wouldn't they still be in that relationship and not need advice?
“What I *am* doing is pointing out those well meaning, otherwise smart men that in discovering BDSM, they aren't stepping through a porthole into a parallel universe where relationship building skills are suddenly not required.”
I missed that the first time. =
Brids: “…if someone has already had a successful relationship, wouldn't they still be in that relationship and not need advice?”
Ha! Yes, the ultimate success would mean they were still in the relationship. In which case, what are they doing looking for a D/s relationship?! Pffftt… the nerve!
Ferns
“Ha! Yes, the ultimate success would mean they were still in the relationship. In which case, what are they doing looking for a D/s relationship?! Pffftt… the nerve!”
We must have two completely different views on what the word successful means. If someone is into BDSM and they have a successful relationship, I'd assume that they're in a BDSM relationship. How could it be successful otherwise if they need BDSM to be happy with the relationship?
How an a relationship be successful and yet end in a break-up?
robert: “Newbies (i still consider myself one) are bombarded with images and a range of options be it from Femdom porn, Fetlife profiles or the personals section of the online or newspaper.”
Yes, and often their first introductions (newbie insta-subbie, meet newbie insta-Domme) reinforce those ideas. That would be fine *if* those people could actually make the distinction when (or IF) they actually want to move from role playing for fun into real life relationship building.
That seems to be a real struggle for many on both sides of the kneel, and the expectation that building a relationship is all about more intensive role playing (serving better, taking more pain, subverting non-subly feelings etc etc) instead of just being yourself seems obviously flawed, so when smart, mature people don't see it, it is baffling.
This struggle doesn't happen with vanilla relationships where everyone is even *more* bombarded with porn and images that don't reflect real life, but no-one (well, ok, no-one that I have ever met ever ever ever!) gets confused by it, or thinks it is real.
“In fact this blog has inspired me and the next thing i will write is a dirty e-mail to my woman.”
*laugh* Good! Though of all the posts that might inspire a dirty email, I would not have picked this as one…!
Ferns
Lovely post – it rang very true !
cb x
cb: “Lovely post – it rang very true!”
Kudos to you for coming and actually reading it! If you happen to meet any other lovely submissive men who might benefit from a little nudge, send them over!
Ferns
actually im new to this submissive lifestyle , but i still want to meet someone with the same interests and have a bit of a talk
then im all to that one :)
You aren’t the only one *smile*.
Have you had a look at Fetlife where there are plenty of discussion forums where you can interact with people?
Ferns
I’d like to think I’m in the minority of subs who understand the points in the article. My issue is actually finding the Dommes. Fetlife is great, but it’s more of a social media site than a dating one. There, everyone keeps saying to go to local munches. I’d be willing, but the avatars of people saying they’ll be attending isn’t encouraging. I don’t pretend to be a male model and I don’t mean to judge, but I’d have to find a person at least somewhat attractive and to be someone I’d want a relationship with before I’d consider submitting to her. Almost all of the local girls I’ve seen on Fetlife seem to be over 200 lbs, covered in tattoos, have facial piercings, purple hair, or a combination of the above. And then I’ll see a perfectly attractive girl in another state or the U.K. So frustrating. Any advice on finding a dominant in the dating world?
I have a few different thoughts about your comment. I’m not quite sure where to start.
Firstly, I think a dogged search for a partner is ALWAYS a mistake. Think about the vanilla world. Where do you meet partners? At work. At social events. At bars. Through friends. Randomly in the street.
My point is this: NOBODY in the vanilla world ever thinks “I’m not going to that party because I don’t think I will find a partner there”. Why? Because their social activities are not *just* about ‘finding a partner’. If that were the case, they would lead very boring lives indeed and they would probably NEVER meet a partner either.
Despite my saying that, I DO understand your perspective, as much as it makes me bristle. I’m not social at all, but my point is really that if you make your entire focus ‘finding a partner’ then you might miss out on a lot of opportunities that might otherwise come your way.
Even with munches a) not everyone RSVPs and b) people know other people. I’ve had dominant women recommend lovely single submissive men to me because they know and like him.
I met my last on Fetlife and the one before that on collarme (now collarspace). The former was active enough to attract my attention, the latter messaged me.
There is no magic solution, but my suggestion is this: make friends, be visible, be fun and interesting, talk to people (all that even if it’s just online). This versus sitting quietly in your burrow waiting to pounce on possible prey that happens past.
Best of luck.
Ferns
i dont have much to say, but this post is perfect. Its so nice of you to take a moment out to talk to guys who are submissive and single. Im happy you care about us, and i take your advice very seriously. I would have no one to look to for advice if it wasnt for people like you. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
What a lovely comment *smile*.
I’m so glad you found it helpful: thank you for taking the time to let me know.
And you are so very welcome.
Ferns
beautifully put x
A belated thank you!
Ferns
One of the things that’s very easy to overlook as contributory to the “impulsively forward” behaviour of some men is the role of libido in a sexually charged environment (which, more often than not, is how the male mind percieves and processes a kink environment, *especially* when that male is unpartnered).
The common preconception is that male libido and female libido are informed by the same mechanism.
The science is clear : this is not the case.
The male libido is endocrinically structured so that, without some sort of sexual gratification, the hormonal balance tilts more and more strongly to positive bias towards sexuality.
The female libido, on the other hand, has a cyclic counterbalance of both positive bias towards and negative bias away from sexuality, based on periodic rising and falling levels of two competing hormones that inform/disinform libido.
In other words, the ladies endocrine system has a built-in inhibitor hormone. The gents don’t.
A sexually charged (both expectational and stimulatory) environment serves to reinforce the magnitude of impulses provided by the endocrine systems in both males and females, but that impulse is only *negatively* experienced by females.
Put another way, a lady who’s not sexually motivated by her positive endocrine impulses is made *more adverse* to sexuality when it’s being informed by the inhibitor hormone.
The thing about these impulses : they can override even the most powerful social conditioning if the *magnitude* is great enough.
This can either be:
1) positive (if there is minimal psychological conflict around sexuality) causing the brain to release a reward response (dopamine) as a result of complying, or
2) negative (if there is a large conflict) causing the brain to release a stressor response (cortisol) which is a strong behavioural inhibitor, as a result of complying
Note : sexual response to *current/established partnerships* are dependent on a neural pathway that uses a separate mechanism in the brain, governed by a similar process in both males and females, the Oxytocin / Vasopressin pathway, which responds to social and intimate contact as well as sexual contact, and is also released during orgasm, too. (That’s why sex with established partners seems more satisfying when the non-sexual relationship is satisfying: they are both sources of Oxytocin release). This pathway reinforces both sexual and (non-sexual) social bonds.
Popular social constructs run directly counter to the endocrinic mechanisms; this gives rise to many situations where the basic gender behaviours are either misunderstood, met with intolerance, or powerfully rejected.
Frustration gets to everybody sooner or later, but it’s a lot more prevalent, and creates stronger drive impulse in males than females.
That explains a hell of a lot of things, including the imbalance in male vs female libido (general case stemming from basic biology) and the gulf between behaviour patterns (“good girls don’t sleep around like sluts” [bullshit psychological/social conditioning to penalise female sexuality], “Boys are just horny dogs, thats Normal” [also BS, but closer to the biology], “Boy’s don’t cry/feel/like cuddles, stop being a faggot” [massive bullshit]) which are coded in early psychology by either parental examples or social feedback.
It’s no wonder we’re having a lot of difficulty with this stuff. We’ve made it a LOT more complicated than the 240,000 years of non-citified history we came from.
I’m actually not quite sure what your point is here, but my responses is the same to any of this kind of ‘but biology’ claptrap (seriously, if we use that as a way of looking at how people treat each other, we are in deep deep trouble):
I DON’T CARE
My level of not caring cannot be overstated. I don’t care so much that my not-caring is like an actual black hole in the universe into which all the lack of care in the world disappears due to the gravitational pull of my not caring. THAT’S how much I don’t care.
Men are entirely capable of not behaving like entitled arseholes. They do it day in and day out all day every day when they interact like normal human beings out in the world. So either they are new and clueless (and this post is for them) or they are jerkfaces and nothing will change the behaviour of those dudes.
Ferns
I’m (badly, I guess) putting forward that our instinctive behaviours, feelings and reactions are being informed by this biological mechanism in a very real way. For some people that’s an overwhelming impulse.
Haven’t you ever done something very stupid in the grip of that feeling? I think we all have. I know I have.
Our expressed behaviours are a function of our intellectual choices, social conditioning and our particular biology, which is (I’m contesting) unique to each of us, so that while these themes appear generally, our specific degree of response to them is unique to us, as our DNA is largely unique to us.
Feel love for somebody? That’s got a biological basis in fact. If that part of one’s brain wasn’t working biochemically that way, one wouldn’t feel that emotion.
Doesn’t, in fact, the phrase “Guh” in your writing mean to say that you feel just that, about something, that provokes an intense (and maybe even overwhelming) emotional response?
I’m not contesting that feeling overwhelms *your good sense* and choices when *you* get it; but for some people its that intense and powerful, and it’s not gender specific, either.
Anything powerful can be good, can be bad, it’s just powerful.
Great blog, Ferns! As I was reading I was thinking “Yep, made that mistake” followed by “and that one”.
I only now realize how incredibly wrong were my assumptions on how a BDSM relationship works. Many thanks for setting me straight.
I’m so glad you found it useful.
These mistakes are common, so learning this stuff early will help you a lot.
Ferns